For the record

[jlh]

. . . this is what I said to pottersginny.

I'll admit it: I found what she said to be personally hurtful and upsetting, since I'm, as she said, a "zebra", a half-breed, a Tragic Mulatto, a biracial girl.

(Mulatto, by the way, is a not-very-nice word that comes from the same root as "mule" and was used as a distinguisher during the time of slavery, like Octoroon or Quadroon. The term "tragic Mulatto" comes from literary and film works (like Imitation of Life) where the mixed race girl is welcome in neither white nor black society. When I was 11, in 1980, my family got the extended Census form, and I remember my mother pointing at the race column where it said, "mulatto" and saying, "That's you." I thought it was sort of an ugly word. I've been sarcastically reclaiming my status as a Tragic Mulatto ever since.)

I attempted to respond to her in a somewhat sarcastic yet reasonable way because I didn't want her to know how much she had upset me; I didn't want to give her that much power.

What I wanted to say, of course, was "You horrible racist fucking cunt." But, I didn't.

I see that a lot of you are not happy with the way that some of us who felt personally attacked have chosen to defend ourselves. I would say that some of the remarks come from the same place: not wanting to show her how much she has hurt us.

Because, what she's actually doing is not saying that who I sleep with is wrong, that some part of me is wrong or inferior to her, or that I'm going to hell. She is saying that I should not exist. How do you react to that? How do you reply to that? How do you keep your head in the face of that? It is nice to think that we would all remain "above this" and stay calm and remember that she's wrong and stupid. But when someone comes along and reminds you of all the things you've heard in little whispers since you were old enough to hear little whispers, you don't always remember that.

I don't think I would ever feel that I had the right to criticize the manner in which, say, ivyblossom or queerasjohn defended themselves. I might not like it, but I would likely not post about it. I'm really, really insulted that so many of you are like, "Oh, Clio, be better than that--why say such things?" Because I'm not always better than that. And sometimes, things get messy.

And if you don't like what I said or the manner in which I chose to defend my very fucking existence, then fine. I appreciate your support.

Comments

[phoenixsong]

*hug* I don't blame you in the slightest, and honestly, reading what you posted, you sound far more reasonable than (I get the impression) others are giving you credit for.

AdoptedBastard!Me

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Thanks, and thanks for the link! That's the best site ever!

I always thought I might try to find my birth parents at some point, so I'm clearly very pro opening records!

[morganmuffle]

To be honest if I was in your place I would have struggled to be as diplomatic as you were. What she said was beyond hateful and I hope one day she understands that.
*sends hugs and a pottersginny doll to punch*

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine that she ever will, which is really the saddest part of this whole sorry business.

Anyway, thanks! *punches doll*

[ciceronianus.livejournal.com]

I liked what you said.

I don't know how to say anything else but that - I liked what you said and the manner in which it was spoken. And maybe my faith won't agree with it, but the God I believe in doesn't agree with the kind of garbage you've had to contend with.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

My God doesn't, either. Thanks.

[avariel-wings.livejournal.com]

She deserved everything she got. She had no right to assume you were at your college on affirmative action, and she especially had no right to say so without even asking anyone if it was true. And I, among several others, told her so.

[avariel-wings.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, and anyone thick enough to really believe achievements like yours could ever in a million years be a result of affirmative action deserves to be flamed into the ground.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I saw your comment and I thought it was awesome. I think it was that affirmative action remark that hurt, more than the overt race stuff. It made me realize how committed to her beliefs she really was.

[queerasjohn.livejournal.com]

*hugs you* Don't ever let anyone take away your anger about something like this. This isn't fucking Star Wars, you are not Luke and they are not Yoda.

*fume*

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Speak the truth you do.

In the real world, man, it isn't that simple, you know? Oh, wait, you totally know.

Thanks, man.

[cygnusfap.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with your right to defend yourself in any way. Anyone that she abused in a racist or homophobic or sizist way has that right, and no way would I take that away from you. What she said was apalling and shocking.

As I said in my post, "if *I* had received racist or any other kind of abuse from her, I'd be mad too." Well, I was mad anyway, but I'd be even madder. Anyone who felt personally attacked in such a way, like you or msscribe or Morri or infinitus etc have that right.

:hugs:

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Cyg. I really appreciate that. As you noted in your post, it really wasn't a debate. It was a brawl. She wasn't interested in listening to reason but in spreading her very NON-Christian brand of hate.

The funny thing was, it was the crack that I must have gotten into H through affirmative action that really hurt. I'm so used to the racist remarks that I have ways of battling them and shielding myself from it, but no one had ever actually insinuated something like that to me before. It took me so long to be comfortable with my intelligence that there is HELL to pay for anyone who tries to take that from me. And it's funny because no one who knows anything about Harvard or has ever met me would say something like that.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[jlh.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Question, honestly asked

[http://users.livejournal.com/_lore/]

Hi, Clio! I hardly ever post in your journal, but I have a question. Is "biracial" the word people born of parents from different "races" would prefer be used to describe them? I put "races" in quotes because it seems to me all bipedal, upright-walking, opposable-thumb-having, brains-larger-than-walnuts people are of the same race.

My parents brought me up with the term "mulatto" and it hasn't occurred to me that it might be offensive. I'm all for excising offensive language from my vocabulary.

Oh, and, this isn't bait. I'm on Cassie's friends list, which you know makes me a gawdless heathen, if you'd like to check me out.

I am not happy with the way this flame war started. I think Ms. PG is desperate for attention and the more people comment on her, the greater her glee. However, everything that's been posted since the word "zebra" was so casually used has been more than justified.

I wouldn't choose to fight PG with more insults as some have (and I consider calling her "sick" an insult as much as anything else. Our whole fandom is called "sick" by some, and it bothers me), but *you* did not take that route. You anger came across just as clearly without mudslinging. Go you!

Anyway, um....thanks. I hope I haven't written anything that bothers you.

love, lore

Re: Question, honestly asked

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I don't think mulatto is offensive; it's just ugly. Personally I prefer biracial because it's nicer, it's clearer, and it includes people who aren't just black/white but black/asian like Tiger Woods or white/asian like Keanu Reeves. I self-identify more "biracial" than Black, but I very much also see myself as a part of the Black community. But when I look around and think, that person is like me, the people I think of are the ones I just mentioned, ones who say, "This is what I am. You call me whatever you want."

Because one of the annoyingly political things within the Black community, that keeps me a little estranged from it, from really feeling a part of it in a closer way, is their wish to negate that yes, one of my parents was white and that matters. It certainly doesn't mean I'm "not Black" or have a wish to be "not Black"—I would be a moron; to the average person on the street I am Black and I have to be aware of that. I will never be white. But I reserve the right to embrace my white cultural heritage (which is a vague Maine French Roman Catholic thing) at the same time as my Black heritage. It's rather controversial that Tiger Woods refuses to say he is only Black—as he points out, he's half Thai but only a quarter Black, and anyway, why can't he be both? It's the need to make the choice that makes me angry. It's why I always put "other" on forms.

So no, I wouldn't be annoyed if someone referred to me as mulatto. It's the truth, after all. But when I am not being sarcastic, I do refer to myself as biracial. Thanks for your question!

[ladylisse.livejournal.com]

*hugs* That's just...that's unbelievable. I almost never say this, but I am totally with John here. She deserves to be flamed into the damn ground. That piece of shit wouldn't know merit or real worth if it bit her in the ass. She isn't fit to be dirt on your shoe.

*hugs again*

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I actually, as I said to her, feel sorry for her, even though she hurt me. Think of everything she will never be able to experience! And she has so much hate in her heart. Anyway, I believe in karma and payback is a BITCH, man.

*hugs you*

[tartpants.livejournal.com]

I silently cheered when I read what you said then and I cheered now as I re-read it again.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Thanks! *hugs*

[decafchai.livejournal.com]

*delurks*

Just wanted to stop by and show my support. pottersginny made the attack personal, and to tell the truth, I thought you were actually much calmer and better-reasoned than I would have been in your place. It's incredibly discouraging to think that I have to live in the same country (or world) as people like her.

And as another Cliffie, I was completely outraged by her affirmative action comment. Wanted to comment about it, but she's screening her comments. For someone who has no hesitation in assuming and saying the worst about others, she seems remarkably reluctant to let other people hear the other side of the story.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Cliffies of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your pearls!

She's pretty much deleting any sort of rational comments, or at the very least not replying to them, and keeping only the nasty ones, I'm sure to prove her own bizarre point. It's really disappointing every time you come across so much raw hatred, but it does abide in the world.

Thanks for your support!

[kay-taylor.livejournal.com]

Clio, I'm sorry if my post wholly or in part inspired this. pottersginny is an offensive and upsetting troll, and emotions were running high. I'm not seeking to judge anything you say in self-defence.

Contrite,

Kay.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Oh, Kay, I certainly wasn't seeking contrition from you. I only wanted to explain why some people were getting angry. I don't think I got really angry until she said that I only got into school because of affirmative action.

The fight did get really dirty, but she not only started it, she steered it there, by not replying to, and in some cases deleting, the posts that were more reasonable. But I don't think you really can reason with hate, however much you might want to. At least, in my experience you can't.

Anyway, thanks for commenting. *hugs*

[aome.livejournal.com]

I can't see what you said - she must have turned her journal private or friends-only.

If what I said was upsetting, then I'm really sorry. I *do* support you. Apparently I just can't do it right. But I do.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

This is the thing:

When did it become my responsibility to talk to these people? And if they are hurtful and obnoxious in the first place, why is that sort of "okay" because hey, they're ignorant, but it's not "okay" for me to be hurt and respond accordingly? Why is it that you expect me to "rise above" the hurtful things that they say? I try, I do, but I'm only human, and I can't always achieve it.

I'm going to post what I said to her since she locked it up--I still have the emails with the replies, so I can do it verbatim but I'm not home right now--but essentially she said that mixed race folks have a lower IQ, so I pointed to my Harvard and Penn degrees, and she said I must have only gotten in due to affirmative action (which, frankly, took my breath away and in many ways was more hurtful than the original racist remark) and then I pointed out that this isn't true and how I know that and that it doesn't matter anyway. She did not reply to this at all, which has been her pattern. She deleted or simply did not comment to anyone who used reason to reply to her. And believe me, it took all my self-control to stay as calm as I did.

At the end of the day, I think it is really a LOT to ask, that x embattled community should just "stay calm" and not strike back when they are being attacked like this, no matter who that embattled community might be, because you don't like to see the fighting, or their tactics. I know there are trolls in the world--I have to deal with them every day. I reserve the right to hit them back when I am being attacked.

[katrionaa.livejournal.com]

I thought your response to her was very reasonable and could have been much harsher. She is a horrible disgusting person and I'm sorry you were hurt. :(

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Awww! Thanks. I really appreciate that.

[praetorianguard.livejournal.com]

Hi Clio. We don't know each other, and I can't view your comment now, but I remember seeing it yesterday and admiring that fact that you didn't go off on her.

Because I would have, had she attacked who I am. I would have called her every horrible thing I could think of and belittled everything she likes about herself and wrapped it all in extreme condescension.

As it was, I tried to use logic and textual arguments (since she seems so fucking fond of the text) and she deleted it. And then I really wanted to go back and write 'You horrible racist fucking cunt', but she seems to revel in that. At any rate, given the terrible shit she was saying, I thought you were more than reasonable.

*weird stranger hugs* She is a horrible racist fucking cunt. And don't let anyone tell you that your anger or your hurt or the way you responded was inappropriate. Shit like that fucking hurts.

[phoenixsong]

Yeah, I love how she's now locked down all the controversial posts. Perhaps the logical, textual arguments against her position were just too many for her to try to delete them all? *eg*

*more hugs to Clio*

[ex-lunasparr180.livejournal.com]

You're not answerable to anyone about how you feel. Fuck 'em.

Maybe now she knows how it feels to be persecuted, hm?

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I look at her, as I'm sure you would, and I think, "This is not a Christian thing to do! How DARE you do this in the name of Christ!"

She needs to meet you and Eb so she can understand what it means to even TRY to live a Christian life in the modern world, rather than her own weirdo subset of it.

And sadly, I'm sure she has such a distorted lens that she doesn't think of it as actual persecution but some sort of weirdo righteous trial. I mostly just feel sorry for her, frankly, now that the initial shock and anger has subsided.

[bluebyrd.livejournal.com]

D00D... Seems the foot-in-mouth epidemic is spreading, don't it? *Huggles*

[jlh.livejournal.com]

d00d, so true. and thanks. *hugs you*

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just a random FictionAlley lurker, but I'm not here to spread hate speak, don't worry! I'm also biracial and as stupid and corny as it sounds, I feel like all biracial people share a bond-just like people who are adopted. I know exactly what you go through in the world. So as a fellow "halfbreed", ::hugs:: I'm sorry you had experience ignorance to that incredible degree. Keep your head up :-)
Renee
P.S. Oh, and "Imitation of Life"? I think that is a GREAT movie, and one that sadly, few people know about.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I'm also biracial and as stupid and corny as it sounds, I feel like all biracial people share a bond
Not corny! I totally agree!

As for Imitation of Life, I think that with the success of Far From Heaven, a lot of Douglas Sirk movies are getting rediscovered around now, so perhaps more folks will become familiar with it. Besides, it has that excellent Mahalia Jackson performance at the end.

Thanks for delurking, Renee! *hugs*

[angiej.livejournal.com]

*random huggage*

You've given me some things to think about re: the biracial vs. black thing. Does it offend you when obviously biracial entertainers like Halle Berry identify as black?

I've got some mixed heritage in my own background. I think many of us do. But one of my co-workers, who is biracial, light-skinned, and has straight black hair that flows down her back always gives her students her philosophy of What To Check On Test Forms... and it's interesting. Since both of my parents are black, it was not an issue for me, but I do realize it's one that is fraught with tension for many.

Am leaving you with an old Civil Rights-era Curtis Mayfield song:

"Keep on pushin'!"

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Does it offend you when obviously biracial entertainers like Halle Berry identify as black?
No; I think it's all about choice. I've found some of the things she's said about it to be annoying, because she implies that it's the "right" choice, but to be fair, she usually gets asked about it in publications like Jet where there is a certain amount of "towing the party line" going on anyway. I understand why she chose to do so, though. Because at the end of the day, neither of us are white, and in this country that's what matters.

In fact, it was in Jet that I read the most offensive article about the issue, where they really took Tiger Woods to task, and I thought that was just obnoxious. He has no illusions of how he is seen, but if you ask him, he'll tell you how he sees himself.

Curtis Mayfield! *loves*

[sisterpandora.livejournal.com]

*hugs you very tightly*

I don't know what words there may exist in our vast universe of nouns, verbs, and all that could fully express my anger with what has happened. There is little left for me to say here, right now, other than this...

Frankly it is my hope that The Furies chase pottersginny until she has to face and account for all she has done - in every sense. Barring that, I hope They chase her straight through the gates of the Hell.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I love you when you get all vengeful.

It was so nice to talk to you, I miss you when you're not around, twinny mine. >:D<

Oh, and I'm so proud of you! Did I tell you that? I am!

[yasmina.livejournal.com]

When people question your existence, you don't *need* to be above it. When I was small, a girl once called me a mutt, because I'm Korean, but adopted by white parents. People would always tell me to go back to my own country, and that I was a chink, and all that bullshit. I was surrounded by Anglo-Saxon blonde children who wouldn't accept me fully because I was Korean, but the asian kids wouldn't accept me either, because I didn't speak Korean. All the time people would make me feel like I shouldn't exist... If you want to be messy about it, and if you don't particularly *want* to be better than that, then don't. It isn't other people who have to deal with it, it's your issue to deal with it however you freakin well can. :D I love your H/H icon. *is H/H Shipper*

Cheers,
Yasmin

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Kids can really be the worst because they pick up stuff from their parents and don't really know what it means except that it's mean. And the whole cross-racial adoption thing, people don't really understand it, but hey, parents are parents. And yeah, we deal with it however we can.

*hugs*