So I read it, and I liked it. A lot

[jlh]

But I honestly kind of don't know what to say. It may be that the overwhelming yuck that fandom sank into when we read each other's initial reactions to OotP makes me wary to post, but you know, we're all older and wiser and hopefully, kinder. Or it may be that I can't react just to this book, but to the entire series, and that puts so much stuff in my head that it might explode.

I really loved how stupid Tom was, merely because he felt that certain kinds of knowledge were beneath his dignity. In a way it was love that killed him, most particularly because it kept him out of Harry's head, but in much larger part it was hubris and a management style that really didn't get the best work out of his subordinates. I also loved how the Trio's plans were full of holes, but they would manage to get shit done mostly because there were enough other people who were sympathetic to get them where they needed to go. I love the whole resistance movement at Hogwarts and that after that crack about them in HBP it was Neville, Luna and Ginny getting things done, and the coins reactivating the DA. Note, also, the very different management style employed by Harry.

The epilog really didn't answer any of MY questions, like who was the headmaster who rebuilt Hogwarts? How did the Ministry change its attitudes toward Magical Creatures? What are any of these people doing for a living now, other than Neville?

In minor character news, I was so excited to see Ted and Andromeda that I squealed.
But mostly, mostly, while I would have been really okay with it, thank you for sparing my boys. deamus forever!

So, who do you think were the two people she wasn't originally planning to kill?

Comments

[misscake]

So, who do you think were the two people she wasn't originally planning to kill?

I'm thinking Tonks and Hedwig.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

The more I think about this the more I think Hedwig had to go because all that message sending--she needed to really cut Harry off. Also, Hedwig really was there to keep Harry from going batshit when he was in Surrey; she almost never really figured into the plots otherwise. But what a horrible way to go, man.

Tonks, yeah, though Peg has some whole alchemy thing about that. It certainly wasn't handled well.

[eibbil-libbie.livejournal.com]

I gave a hearty squee when I finished that your boys made it through. *loves and loves*

Yeah - kinda scares me, really. If that was the infamous epilogue that she supposedly wrote, what, after book 1? before it? Does that mean this entire journey of horcruxes and hallows and dark wizards oh my was merely to get to Albus Severus Potter?

Based on the tossed aside way it was done? I'm voting Remus and Tonks weren't originally slated on the dead list.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Peg has some whole alchemy thing about Remus and Tonks, and I'm not sure that Remus wasn't supposed to die to be all dead with Harry at the end. She was pretty cruel to those marauders in the end, really, which makes me sad.

[zorb]

Every reaction I've seen from people who've actually read it has been positive overall, so you're probably safe to go out around LJ.

For the dead people, I think it was Remus and Tonks. They're just kind of "Oh, hey, dead!" without much more explanation. :-(

And I thought of you when your boys showed up, and with Andromeda.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

It seems now that some people on my flist have seen other people who've been obnoxious and then have felt the need to talk about it. Only one person on my flist disliked the book and dude, she gets to dislike the book! Mostly I just get paranoid about someone writing in a locked post, "OMG there's this person on my flist and they like, don't like the epilogue and are talking about Dean and Ted Tonks and don't they understand that JKR wants us to love Ron and Hermoine? How dare they like anything else!!!!!"

A friend recently said that she thinks JKR really can't write things that are too emotional, like real grief over beloved characters, or actual romance, so she just skips right over it. It's kind of a drag.

[moony]

I'm going with Tonks and Hedwig, because she sort of did to Remus what she did to Sirius - loads of airtime = doom. I figured he was done for, but I don't think she intended Tonks to go with him, until she did.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Yeah, when he kept having to do his little blurb on who he was I was like, yikes.

Okay, so now that all is revealed: when you made that post last week about shippers saying they wouldn't read it if their person was dead, who were you talking about?

[moony]

Oh, there was an H/D shipper on someone else's flist (I heard this second-hand) who had heard incorrectly that Draco dies, and because of that she decided to boycott the book, refused to read, etc. It was rather militant and scary.

(Meanwhile, my 'ship is, you know, dead. But I have this nice rowboat here, and a compass that doesn't point north, and my little flag with pawprints. :D )

[moony]

Also, I totally thought of you when Dean popped up and Seamus. :D

[ladylisse.livejournal.com]

I kinda love how not-complete the epilogue was, because there's so much to play with still. And dude. Dean. Ted and Andromeda. Percy. NEVILLE. asdjialsd incoherency.

I'm fairly certain she wasn't planning to kill Tonks initially, and I suspect it may have been a different Weasley instead of one of the twins, although goodness knows which one.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I think it was Tonks and someone but I can't work out who that other person is. People are saying Remus and Hedwig but I don't think it was either of them.

There was a lot of second tier character stuff going on. And you KNOW there is just going to be piles and piles and piles of kidfic; it's already started. So Anne of Green Gables really.

[uberlibra.livejournal.com]

I agree with you re: Tonks and Hedwig. Though for a moment there I worried for Neville. Heck, for a moment there, I worried for EVERYONE. And I really hate how tossed aside Tonks' death was.

I was pretty into the whole thing (a few chuckles and a few tears, and only a couple of WTF?s) until the epilogue. It was closure, technically, but it was neither terribly satisfying nor informative.

Don't we all wonder what Harry does for a living? I'm guessing even JKR couldn't decide...

[jlh.livejournal.com]

The Epilog didn't make me angry, it just wasn't satisfying. Like getting a tiny taste and wanting more. But yeah, I think it's all stuff JKR decided not to deal with, which really, is fair.

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

I also loved how the Trio's plans were full of holes, but they would manage to get shit done mostly

I thought it was interesting how nobody's plans quite worked out the way they intended, that there were always surprises and partial failures and unexpected consequences. This probably Means Something but I am far too brain-dead at the moment for meta. :)

But yeah, the Trio were at their worst when it was just them (and then for a while just Harry and Hermione), alone in the woods, afraid to make contact with anyone. I liked the way JKR sort of stripped Harry down in the first half of his quest, and then gradually built him back up by having him reconnect with other people, sometimes against his own inclinations. He really ends up being a fascinating type of hero, a little too inward and averse to leading big groups to be totally well-suited for the job, but maybe for that reason the kind of hero who does less harm after his victory.

The love thing -- I was afraid this might have been some really sentimental thing that empowered him to victory, but I liked how what it was really about was his capacity for sacrifice, for being about others even to the loss of himself. Although she did sneak in that bit about how his willingness to sacrifice cast magical Lily-style protection against V over everyone else.

I'm glad that Dean got a little bit of his backstory in, and a decently large role to play! And I thought of you when he hugged his "best friend" Seamus!

I really loved the book. Still digesting . . .

[andstillitmoves.livejournal.com]

I have yet to read! But there will be thoughts at nothingbutfic later.

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

Cool to know!

[jlh.livejournal.com]

The good thing is that Harry thinks really well on his feet. Tom always has this moment of "how could my magnificent plan NOT work?" and being pissy at some henchman before figuring out something else to do. It may be that, that really leads to Harry's success, that he's so in and of the moment all the time.

Well, also, and I realized this after seeing the OotP movie, the love keeps Tom out of his head. Tom wasn't around that much in his head in HBP, nor in this film. It was all back to Harry just seeing things Tom was doing. And just having a group of people around him not to do his bidding but to actually help him was also the love thing.

Oh, the boys hugging. And growling! ♥ ♥ ♥

I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts!

[meezergal.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't read the whole book yet, but naturally I read the Epilogue. I pouted, and I'm still pouting, but hey, I'll get over it. I think if yesterday (my cat possibly having cancer) and today (long story) hadn't been so craptastic, I might have taken it more magnimously. Did I spell that right? I'm tired. My foot hurts. My arm hurts. I need a hot bath...

[kerosinkanister.livejournal.com]

The epilog really didn't answer any of MY questions, like who was the headmaster who rebuilt Hogwarts? How did the Ministry change its attitudes toward Magical Creatures? What are any of these people doing for a living now, other than Neville?

The biggest, IMO, is how the WW is going to change attitudes about Muggles and Muggle-borns? Which could obviously be a book by itself, but Voldemort definitely isn't the root cause of their evil, he's merely reflective of it. Not that I'm letting him off the hook for his actions, but without a radical change they'll have another Voldemort in ten or fifty years.

So, who do you think were the two people she wasn't originally planning to kill?

Lupin and Tonks.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

You're totally right. It just keeps coming back over and over with this hierarchical way of thinking. I had allowed myself to think at the end of book 5 that the destruction of that statue at the Ministry of Magic was symbolic—but it wasn't. I have a bunch of big disappointments with this book but mostly I was already disappointed when I realized after book 6 that she didn't have time to come through on almost any of it, so I changed my expectations.

[kerosinkanister.livejournal.com]

I am glad that Muggle-borns and Creature-rights' ended up having really significant plot points in DH, even if we don't know how they ultimately resolved the problems (or not).

[lessthangreat.livejournal.com]

I think definitely Tonks was one she wasn't originally planning to kill. That death was just so random, and so unexplained, and tossed in our faces. I think, though, that Remus was always going to die. It had to be full-circle for all the Marauders, and Remus had to join Sirius, James and Lily on the other side. But still, his death was also incredibly "in our faces" that it feels like an insult, even though I was fully ready for him to die. The method of relaying that information was entirely unfair.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Yeah, a lot of the replies here have been Tonks with either Lupin or Hedwig, but I think both Lupin and Hedwig were slated to die, so I'm not sure who the other one was. Some are saying Fred, but I think one of the Weasleys was going to die and it makes the most sense to make it one of the twins, very tugs at your heartstrings that way. So I'm still like, who was the other one?

JKR is shite at writing deaths such that we get a decent amount of space to mourn the characters. She did it with Sirius and then all over the place in this book and I just have a problem with that, as a reader. I feel like she wants us to care about the characters but only so far as she wants us to, you know?

[aome.livejournal.com]

the two people she wasn't originally planning to kill

Fred and Tonks.

I was stunned by Hedwig's death, but I think that one was planned - it cut Harry off from communication and left him free to roam without worrying about his owl.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I agree about Hedwig and Tonks. I think Fred is a good candidate but in the end I don't think it was him. I would have been shocked if the Weasleys had escaped. Then again, I was surprised that none of "the six" were killed, and that all of the Marauders generation was. There's something, I don't know, unsettling about that.

[aome.livejournal.com]

I was surprised that none of "the six" were killed, and that all of the Marauders generation was

Yes, after the ominous poem/quotes at the front of the book, I was fully expecting one of The Six to go, and I somehow thought Remus would survive. But ... yeah - that "old guard" photo Moody gave Harry - I don't think anyone is now alive, except Hagrid and the Weasleys, are they?

[sisterpandora.livejournal.com]

So, who do you think were the two people she wasn't originally planning to kill?

Tonks and Dobby maybe?

My brain is so over filled with thoughts - seriously, it's like a ball of dancing bunnies. And I don't mean that as plot bunnies, just dancing hoppy bunnies.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Tonks definitely. Dobby, maybe Dobby. It was such a sad scene, I can see her crying over it.

I think in talking to some people I've finally come to what I think about the books, at least a bit clearer than before. And certainly how the last four years have been a long period of managing my admittedly high expectations.

I'm really glad my fic is GoF canon now. How odd!

[sisterpandora.livejournal.com]

I found it... over done. Poor Dobby though, I'm glad he got the hero's end.

Oooooo, can't wait to hear.

Me too!

[scrabble.livejournal.com]

Looks like she's actually given this information out, which I never thought she'd do:

"Fred (Weasley, brother of Harry's friend Ron), Lupin (a former teacher at Hogwarts, the school for wizards and witches that Harry attended) and Tonks (Lupin's wife) really caused me a lot of pain," Rowling says.

"Lupin and Tonks were two who were killed who I had intended to keep alive. … It's like an exchange of hostages, isn't it? And I kept Mr. Weasley (Ron's father) alive. He was slated to die in the very, very original draft of the story."