Harry Potter : British actors of the '00s :: Roots : Black actors of the '70s

[jlh]

Announcement: ali_wildgoose, a very good friend of mine, was friended by someone named "harry pooter" and the LJ turned out to be FULL OF SPOILERS. And then in the comments scrabble pointed out that you could make an LJ called so_and_so_dies and spoil people without their even looking at the journal itself. So I've turned off notifications of when people friend me or communities invite me, and suspended non-friend commenting. Five more days, people.

I saw the film on Friday night but it took me a little while to work out what I wanted to say about it. I liked a lot of things about the film, but it would be difficult for me to say "I loved this movie," mostly for reasons that are more about the book than the film.

Things that aren't the film's fault:

• I didn't enjoy the book OotP, so the movie was going to have to work really hard to not make me feel like A Series of Inexplicably Harsh Things that Happened to Harry Potter One Year. Foolishly, when I saw so many people loving the film, I thought that perhaps it could—forgetting that a lot of you felt that OotP wasn't so harsh on reread (I have not reread and do not plan to) or plain liked it to begin with. But walking out of the film, I felt almost as battered as I had when I read the book and I don't really look to my media to beat me up, thanks. The plot was absolutely streamlined in a good way, but then it became the hits just keep on coming. So as a general statement, I can't say I liked the movie, though it was well made.
  
• Seeing the occlumency scenes again, I find myself right back where I was when I read the book. I cannot forgive Snape for what he does here. Yes, Snape has issues, and yes, he's just been left to his own devices by Dumbledore, and yes, Snape has every reason to hate James Potter. But Harry isn't James, and he's just a kid. A kid who is relying on Snape to teach him something, when Snape is a lousy, unwilling teacher. Let's face it: if Harry had been able to learn that skill, we wouldn't have had the battle at the Ministry—and as Ziggy pointed out, if Snape IS on Tom's side then he very effectively weakened any defenses that Harry might have had. I was so angry and frustrated watching those scenes again, so furious with Snape for not being able to put his own shit aside for the sake of, well, anything outside himself. I'm sorry, I try not to talk about Snape in this journal because I have friends who are big Snape fans and they big time don't appreciate it, but there it is. As Lupin said, dude, that was high school. He's had 15 years now to get over it. Enough already.

What I didn't like about it:

• Because there was so much PLOT there wasn't much time for the sort of small character moments that give richness and really are what I like in any story. I really missed that. We couldn't get a sense of how yearning yet awkward things were between Harry and Sirius, for example. I know the film couldn't slow down, but it felt like just a skeleton because of it.
  
• I'm not one to be "they shouldn't have cut this from the book" but I will make that claim for one thing: They should have kept Sirius fighting back against Molly's overprotectiveness, which they did show. I think it's an important moment for the structure and balance of the film, because Sirius is the only one who wants to give Harry as much information as possible, as opposed to particularly Dumbledore. It's a key coming of age moment in this book, which is essentially about the adults not being sure if Harry is a child or an adult, and Harry not being sure himself.
  
• Oh, Hermione. Emma is clearly the weakest of the three actors, which is unsurprising since she hasn't done any other acting and doesn't appear to want to. Hermione can be shrill and annoying, particularly in this book where she's almost always right, and Emma really doesn't help much with that. Also, while I'll note below that I found a lot of the Ron/Hermione to be charming, one thing I don't like about that ship is the implication that Hermione is like Molly, so that little moment on the stairs at Christmas made me cringe.
  
• Um, where was Ginny? From the poster I was looking forward to kickass!Ginny (one of the few things about the book that other people had a problem with but I actually didn't) but she didn't appear. Why wasn't she in the carriage with the rest of the "OotP Six" at the start of the movie? Why was her introduction of Luna given to Hermione? How does this set us up for HBP?

What I really liked about it:

• All that 1930s pre-WWII Britain imagery. The first two films seemed a bit more Victorian, or even older in moments, but from PoA forward we seem to have landed squarely in England Between the Wars, which is entirely appropriate. The scenes at the train station at Hogwarts and going to and fro, Umbridge's wardrobe (and Lupin's back in PoA), the look of the Ministry, even the look of the film itself was so steeped in that era. And beyond that, the nods to fascism—Fudge's banner, the radio broadcasts, the loudspeaker announcements—BRILLIANT. My favorite thing about the film, absolutely, making the Fudge-as-Chamberlain parallel that much starker.
  
• Thank GOD Dan Radcliffe figured out how to act by this movie. I thought he was great and I really look forward to the next two films. I adored the DA scenes, had forgotten how much I loved them in the book, and Harry really is a wonderful natural teacher. While I found the GoF shag to be amusing, I'm also glad he cut his damn hair.
  
• Ron keeps getting robbed but I thought Rupert was fantastic as always. I just wish they'd give him a lot more to do. Though, since he's just so adorable, he makes the Ron/Hermione stuff a lot sweeter than I read it in the book.
  
• Luna rocked my world. I thought she was just nutty enough, more sort of spacey and odd than actually crazy, and I loved every single Harry/Luna moment (though in a nonshippy way). I'm all about Neville/Luna in a shippy way, though.
  
• Neville! I was wondering how they would be able to convey his essential Neville-ness when he's grown so much bigger than Harry, but the really bad hair and shuffling awkwardness—the sense of "my arms and legs are too long and I don't know where to put them"—was brilliant, and you know that was mostly acting rather than anything else. He was adorable showing up with that silly plant at the beginning and I don't even mind that they gave him that silly line to Bella in the fight scene.
  
• Fred and George! Selling joke treats! Comforting small children! Leaving school with a bang! Go them!
  
• Oh, Sirius, you are so crazy, in such a cringingly unexpected way, where we can go along thinking that you're not crazy and then suddenly oh, yes, you are. I'm going to say some harsh things below so let me say here about Sirius: My problem really with his arc is that he doesn't have the same real chance for redemption and growth that other characters have. He finds a way to deal with prison, but note that when he dies he's been out of jail for less than three years, spending one of those years still mostly as a dog stalking Hogwarts, the next hiding out with Lupin or again, at Hogwarts living on rats in a cave as a dog, or back in his childhood home where his abusive mother screams at him all day. Not really theraputic environments. If it had gone on longer, or more importantly, if he had let his own issues truly get in the way of his helping the Order or Harry (which he never does) then that would be one thing, but for Sirius, mostly, I'm just sad.
  
• Lupin! Holding a screaming Harry! OMG that scene was so amazingly done! Just, perfect on all fronts!
  
• Dumbledore, so frustratingly absent, so completely off base, so strange that he thought he was more of a target than Harry. It's like this weird moment where he realizes that he has to pass on the mantle, that it really ISN'T about him anymore, he isn't the one the Big Bad is gunning for. It's a weird, sad moment that I understood better from the film than from the book, I admit, perhaps because reading the book I was more in Harry's head than Albus's.
  
• Umbridge was really creepy and scary and so much a personification of Hannah Arendt's banality of evil. I loved her Chanel-like suits and the cat plates and her weird smile and the way she had to have a flash of pink at her throat even at the Wizengamot.
  
• Poor Cho. I thought the change in that plot was appropriate for the film, which has enough characters really. And I was glad we didn't have to see Valentine's Day. But I thought the first kiss was sort of cute, at least.
  
• I'll end with my boys. I got everything from Seamus that I wanted to. He did his thing, it didn't get cut, he got to glower a lot, Dean got to be sympathetic, I love them both. And Seamus is still working that short tie, which I find adorable.

One thing I will say is that, mainly because of OotP, I didn't want to do a reread before DH. But I am looking forward to rereading the books after I've read DH, to see how they all fit together once I know where we're headed. Onward!

Comments

[jacyevans.livejournal.com]

But I am looking forward to rereading the books after I've read DH, to see how they all fit together once I know where we're headed.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who is planning on doing this! Everyone I know is furiously trying to re-read all 6 books this week in time to read the DH.

Im going to wait it out, read DH when I get it (because, as much as I want to savor it, I know I'll just sit and read it as fast as I can without absorbing everything), then start from the beginning, picking up on all the little foreshadowing and hints that were probably so subtly dropped, even us crazy fans, who have dissected everything syllable by syllable have missed them.

Thenm, when I re-read DH, it'll take on a whole new feeling, and I can actually read it slowly and enjoy it :)

[jlh.livejournal.com]

You know, after DH, I might make a comm modelled on the one [Bad username or site: imaginary circus @ livejournal.com] made for DH, with an entry for every chapter of each book for a whenever-you-do-it post-canon canon reread, if that makes sense. I'd mentioned wanting to do this elsewhere, and someone else was like, yes please! Perhaps I'll do that in the fall, when the initial blah blah of new canon has died down.

[jacyevans.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a great idea! I'd certainly join :) But I agree on waiting until all the craziness (and wank - because you know the fandom is going to explode with it, no matter what happens) dies down a bit.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I find it hilarious that I had made the same connection myself just recently that you made in the title of your post--it's totally the Roots of the 00s only with British actors!

[jlh.livejournal.com]

What made me think of it was hearing that Hugh Laurie may be cast as Scrimogeour or something, and realizing that nearly that entire Footlights gang (Laurie, Fry, Brannagh, Thompson, Staunton) and their buddies like Rickman have some tie to the books or movies. It's like, who isn't in the films at this point?

Also the definite weirdness of Robert Hardy (whom I shall always always think of as Siegfried, just as I will always always think of Peter Davison as Tristan) playing Fudge, who's really Chamberlain, when he won such success playing in-the-wilderness Churchill, who was so much more akin to, well, really Harry here.

[longtimegone]

So I've turned off notifications of when people friend me or communities invite me, and suspended non-friend commenting.

This seems reasonable. I've followed your lead on this. People that want to spoil the book for others just suck. :(

Seeing the occlumency scenes again, I find myself right back where I was when I read the book. I cannot forgive Snape for what he does here. Yes, Snape has issues, and yes, he's just been left to his own devices by Dumbledore, and yes, Snape has every reason to hate James Potter. But Harry isn't James, and he's just a kid.

*nods* This pretty much sums up why I dislike Snape. He makes me sad. It goes along though with what you mentioned the other day when we were chatting, and about needing Sirius to bounce back against Molly's overprotectiveness more because the story is also about the adults forgetting to lead because they are so wrapped up in their own shit. I thought that was a brilliant point right to the heart of what this book is about. Aside from The Year Where Bad Thing after Bad Thing Happens to Harry Potter.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Apparently there are some people, NOT on my filtered flist, who have been making telling tags and comments about spoilers that they think aren't spoilery but of course are. I don't know what is the matter with people, seriously, but they've chased Crystal off of LJ. Like, are you five? I know that a lot of fannish excitement is impatience, but I have a very dim view of impatience, myself. I feel that Julie's been pretty responsible and I don't know why others can't do the same, but then, I'm always newly amazed at how immature people can be.

Which gets me back to my problems with Snape! I just cannot deal with him at all here. By HBP he's back to being a character that sort of interests me, and I'm sort of interested in his arc, but I will never be a fan, I fear. It makes me sort of sad because I know that sometimes I can upset the ardent Snapefans who are on my flist, but I can't go there.

[kerosinkanister.livejournal.com]

one thing I don't like about that ship is the implication that Hermione is like Molly, so that little moment on the stairs at Christmas made me cringe

Harry even made the comparison to Molly and Arthur in OOTP so it's not out of place. While I love R/Hr I don't wish for them to have a relationship like Molly and Arthur, with a henpecked Ron working a job he likes but Hermione hates or a respectable job that suffocates him. With Hermione tending a brood she gradually loses interest in. I'm really curious to see what their dynamic is like in DH.

Though, since he's just so adorable, he makes the Ron/Hermione stuff a lot sweeter than I read it in the book.

I agree that the R/Hr in OOTP was not nearly as cute and sweet as it was in this movie. There was a lot of tension and Hermione did quite a bit to push Ron towards Lavender. Not that I want to debate shipping with you but I do wonder how the movie will set up Ron/Lavender now. I suspect, if you haven't read this in my review already, that with the return of Kloves Ron will simply be a jerk to the wounded St. Hermione.

/r/hr

Thanks for the info on spoilers. I've taken off the last unmoderated comm, set to friends only comments, and disabled email notifications of new friends.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I guess I should have said, the Hermione=Molly trope is one thing that makes me feel ooky about r/hr in canon. I don't want to remind my future lover of his mother in any case, never mind that Molly drives me batshit. If JKR didn't have that as a big Reason They Belong Together I'd probably like the ship a lot more. So I share your wish that Ron and Hermione can find a way to be together that isn't like Molly and Arthur at all.

I really hope Kloves doesn't do that, but I wouldn't be that surprised. That said, who knows, other than just the dating, how that will get streamlined in the film, especially since the whole sending birds to peck at Ron scene is a tough one to defend Hermione for. (Me, I found it a funny moment where she actually acted like a teenager for once, overreaction and all.)

The spoiler thing gets worse every year, I think just because there are more non-fannish assholes wandering around LJ who think hey, let's piss off the nerds!

[kerosinkanister.livejournal.com]

Having said all that R/Hr is still my favorite Hermione pairing, though I do read and like some other Ron pairings. But a significant part of that is Ron is my favorite character and he generally gets shafted in Hermione/not-Ron stories. I know that's not absolute but it is all too common. My favorite stories are the ones where the trio are still good friends regardless of ships being canon or not.

I hadn't thought about the birds but I bet that gets cut. They generally seem loathe to show the protagonists acting badly.

This will be the first book I'll actually be in fandom for so, while I'm a bit disappointed by people deliberately spoiling others, I'm excited to see the reaction to the book as it happens instead of going back through journals/fandom wank/etc a year after the fact.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Having said all that R/Hr is still my favorite Hermione pairing, though I do read and like some other Ron pairings. But a significant part of that is Ron is my favorite character and he generally gets shafted in Hermione/not-Ron stories. I know that's not absolute but it is all too common. My favorite stories are the ones where the trio are still good friends regardless of ships being canon or not.

I totally agree, and that happens not just in Hermione/not-Ron, but also in Harryslash. I mean, if I slashed Harry I'd make Hermione into his faghag, because look at her attitude about him and Cho! She's all, you go, Harry! So while I think she'd have to work her mind around Draco and she doesn't trust him much, I don't think she'd be a crazy shrew about it. As for Ron, while I would find it tricky to slash him I don't think he'd be a crazy homophobe if Harry were gay and stomp around being annoying. It's a really shallow read of his character. That said, a lot of Harryslash ships R/Hr, saying that their going out makes Harry feel isolated and drives him into the arms of whomever, which is equally silly. The trio are the trio, regardless of who they are snogging, as canon shows us again and again. And I have to say, that's why I was so pleased when you were like, oh, Ron Padma! because I really wanted to give Ron something totally awesome. I think he's sweet.

I'd be sad if the birds get cut. That and her trying to avoid her date at the Xmas party are some of my favorite Hermione moments in canon EVER. But then, while I understood it, I was sad when "Weasley is our King" was cut because aww, Ron.

I just have to say, having seen it happen twice, I'm not looking forward to the wank, nor the way that some are seeing the entirety of the DH release as, "the reason for the biggest wank ever." I mean, yuck. I've been affected by both little aftershocks from canon—Sirius's death and the general darkness of book 5, the settling in of R/Hr, H/G and Lupin/Tonks in book 6—and I really hope that whatever happens in book 7, at least my flist isn't full of the wank. It wasn't for 6, and I friend people very carefully, so I'm pretty hopeful I'll be able to avoid at least direct contact with it, and instead just get everyone's interesting reactions and piles of analysis!

[kerosinkanister.livejournal.com]

I liked the Ron/Padma because it's nice to find Ron rarepairs. With Harry and Hermione it seems like there's a decent amount of fic with most secondary characters but not so much with Ron. I've actually had a plot bunny for a Ron/Parvati for awhile. I dunno if it'll ever get written since I've got other stuff I'm working on but I think Padma and Lavender could make for some amusing stuff. I can't imagine either of them would be too keen on Parvati going out with Ron after their own experiences!

They did cut Harry siccing Hedwig on Ron and Hermione and Hermione's sneak jinx so it wouldn't surprise me. I found I didn't actually mind them cutting Ron's Quidditch struggles-I thought I would-since it's only important for Ron's character development, not central to the plot. Though it is a bit odd that the movies are getting shorter while the books get longer. I suppose a bean counter somewhere has figured out whatever the maximum length can be to squeeze in an extra show per screen per day.

I don't think my flist will be very wanky unless certain characters die. But I do just want to see how fandom as a whole reacts.

And completely unrelated but awhile ago I was ranting a bit about the lack of genderbending fic in HP and slytherincess recced one of yours on RS.org with a top!Hermione/Harry that, despite obviously not being my ship, I thought was well done and had a pretty good integration of magic into sex. So much kinky fic seems to only use magic to tie someone up. I suppose it's difficult to truly think of all the possibilities magic opens up.

[ziggy1278.livejournal.com]

"as Ziggy pointed out, if Snape IS on Tom's side then he very effectively weakened any defenses that Harry might have had"

I think that was Chris. While I thought it was an interesting point I can't even allow myself to entertain thought from the "Snape is bad" camp. I mostly won't entertain the idea... because srsly?

However I'm 100% with you that he is an unforgivably childish, irresponsible git. Which I love because there are so many of those victim-y characters who some how get to the status of "all grown up" and find themselves in positions of power which they should not be in. *Shrug*

Also, all I can think about now is how I thought Lupin let Harry go a little easy. Harry should have given him one in the gut or something because it just seems too easy how he kind gives up and goes... "Yeah, run after that bitch. It's clearly for the best."