So, about the stuff we're not supposed to talk about on dates but really need to

[jlh]

You know, religion and politics?

So this is slightly in response to the atheism thing going around (and if you haven't seen it, tartpants has a link) but also to something that I've seen on the Left for some years now and that I feel like I keep beating my head up against.

If you make people feel stupid, they will not like you.

And if they don't like you, they won't vote for you or your bill in congress or your supreme court nominee. They won't want you to teach their children. They won't want you to operate on their father. They won't want you to run the country. They might want leaders to be smarter than they are but not at the expense of their own self-respect. Honestly, I can't really blame them.

Comments

[a-hollow-year.livejournal.com]

Intellect or at least Rational Thought as being necessarily better than other ways of being in the world is an illusion--as much of one as any religion, really, and one that has driven humanity into almost as much trouble.

That is debatable. The problem with Rational Thought is that people can easily make it into an ideology, which is, in many ways, just like faith in a god and a set of rules presumably set down by said god. Civilization progresses towards rationality and away from blind adherence.

As for your friends, I have had the same thing happen, but with Christians. Some (many) people do not understand that faith and intelligence are not mutually exclusive. It has nothing to do with being an atheist or a theist and everything to do with being an asshat.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

But the opposite of Rational Thought isn't just blind adherence. The opposite I usually talk about is Emotional Thought. I mean, there are lots of places one can get to that rationality won't take you to. Deciding to marry, have children, those aren't always "rational" decisions and that doesn't mean that they are bad. Having a gut instinct that something (be it a job, a person, a school, any situation) is good or bad is often helpful. But none of these things are Rational.

The way I think is sort of circular and full of weird sideways connections and leaps of logic and when I run into Priests of Logic they usually think I'm an idiot.

There were a lot of them at Harvard, needless to say. They usually wondered what the hell I was doing there.

Yeah, I mean, in some ways I suppose that I should have less respect for folks who would have less respect for me for that reason, but mostly I just feel sad and a little defensive.

[a-hollow-year.livejournal.com]

Deciding to marry, have children, those aren't always "rational" decisions and that doesn't mean that they are bad.

Those things are actually rational in an evolutionary and biological sense; they are unconscious, rational decisions that further the species. Being around other people, eating, sex, sense of accomplishment - all of these things feel good, and things that feel good are positive for our continued survival.

That, however, has nothing to do with whether they are meaningful or not. ;) Just because you know that certain things are just chemicals reacting to your biological urge to perpetuate yourself and the species, that doesn't make them any less real or personally moving.

mostly I just feel sad and a little defensive.

That's a rational response!

But seriously, there are some sociological reasons why people do such things, but none of them are, in fact, very logical at all in the context of our society today, but I won't bore you with that.

I also have the feeling that some of the atheists you know hadn't quite grown out of their RARG RAGE AGAINZT THE MACHINE/I AM UBERMENSCH phase that makes being an atheist so embarrassing at times. Ideologues are annoying no matter what they believe.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Ah, but you know, them 'as loves the Rational distrusts the unconscious in many ways. If you say, "I don't like that guy but I don't know why," they tell you that you are being irrational. So we can say that it's rational in a true sense but in this particular vernacular sense it is not. I mean, what you're saying is a good argument for why emotional thought and rational thought are not actually different and the whole thing is a false dichotomy, but that would be like admitting that your mother was right about something which I doubt any of these people want to do.

Ideologues are annoying no matter what they believe.

We need to stitch that onto a pillow, I mean, make an icon of that. So wise.

[a-hollow-year.livejournal.com]

but that would be like admitting that your mother was right about something which I doubt any of these people want to do.

XD Further proof that they are not truly of the Logical Mindset, as someone of said mindset would constantly reevaluate his or her beliefs and would not find shame in admitting they were wrong! Few people like doing that, though (which is, I suspect, also biologically influenced, but I have no evidence to back that up atm), so really asshattishness is a meme that embraces all without prejudice.

...not that I have it all figured out or anything - I only spent, like, forty minutes thinking about this while I walked the dog, so you know. I MIGHT BE WRONG