by the way, non-Americans . . .

[jlh]

You know what I'd love to see? I'd love to see a lot more of you all yammering away about your own fucking politics and what you like and don't like about them, and a little bit less about how you think our voting system is stupid, because, not so much with the helping. (I'm mostly exempting our friends from Oz who have been wailing quite loudly about their recent election and I say, go you! Keep wailing! I am so with you!)

But I'd love to know what, internally, in your country is good or bad. I don't remember hearing much about the Hutton commission report. I don't remember hearing any outrage about Rocco Buttiglione possibly being the new EU minister for justice. Haven't heard many opinions about what Arafat dying could mean in the Middle East. As far as I can tell from my flist, the US is the original horrible country and the source of most of the evil in the world, while Europe is a bunch of happy people who all hold hands around the campfire and sing kumbaya every night. Educate me. I feel like we are an open book relative to you. I know what I hear on the BBC, what I read on some news sites, but what do you think?

By the way, this post from anw about actors that have played both gay and action heroes reminds me of a very interesting article recently in Entertainment Weekly about a Denzel Washington project that was scrapped. Know why there aren't more black action heroes? Because while those movies will take in plenty of money in the US, they gross almost nothing overseas, making them financially unviable. We might be horribly insular Jesus freaks, but at least we don't demand that our films have only white people in them.

Comments

[adjudicated.livejournal.com]

Wordy McWord.

[thessamunga.livejournal.com]

T_T wails T_T

[jlh.livejournal.com]

>:D

[lissannej.livejournal.com]

Well, *I* certainly don't think the US is the original horrible country -- I keep trying to move there! *grins*

But you do make a good point, Clio. I didn't have a whole lot to say publically about the Oz elections because I'd resigned myself to the fact that Howard would win, even though I didn't vote for him and hate the fact he's in power yet again. I also tried to remain neutral about the US elections because I know a lot of my friends were very emotional about the outcome.

[ceilidh]

I'd love to see a lot more of you all yammering away about your own fucking politics and what you like and don't like about them, and a little bit less about how you think our voting system is stupid, because, not so much with the helping.

Word.

Why I don't think you'll hear much about our politics until the election next year.

[wednesdayschild.livejournal.com]

I think that the thing is, in Britain, anyway, there's nothing like the hype about American politics. Our politics, even the backbiting stuff, is all rather tame, comparatively. I'm certainly left-wing, but I can understand right-wingers in British politics in a way that I can't with the American Right. Our issues are not moral issues, in the main - they're economic issues. Tuition fees, pensions, privatisation of public services, fuel tax, tax on fags and booze, income tax in general, social security - these are the issues that get people voting. Which is possibly why our turn out is usually around 20-25%. There's not the clear left/right dichotomy that you have in the US: even for most right-wingers over here, John Kerry seemed a little too far to the right, but he was the man that a very clear majority would have voted for (Bush's popularity over here is incredibly limited, even among the 'Right'). Even the Conservative party (our right-wing party) has apparent plans on for civil unions for gay couples; abortion is a non-issue; and Tony Blair being a Christian is a faint embarrassment for most.

So, really, in the end, our politics is not like your politics: we vote for economic policies, not on 'moral values'. And while I prefer it that way, it does make the politics less interesting. Our most recent 'big issues'? The banning of fox hunting, new gambling laws (tightening regulations, but allowing more American-style casinos), and a possibly ban on smacking. Roughly speaking, I'm in favour of the fox-hunting ban, not in favour of more casinos, and not a fan of the ban on smacking (I was a horrible child, and getting a short, sharp smack when I was willfully disobedient did me the world of good) but if it's banned then I'm not overly bothered.

And this is how most of us feel, in general, about political issues. Barring the war in Iraq, which has/had nothing like the support over here that it did in the US, and in which the general (and bitter) feeling is that we were lied to about WMD (we were, but no-one believed it anyway, and we were never told about any al-qaida links, and were all very confused that Americans seemed to think that there was a link) and in which Blair is Bush's lapdog, there are no issues that really catch the interest of the public, and not just minority groups (fox hunters were rather riled over the fox hunting bill, but that was it).

You might be in luck come the time of the general election next year, but I wouldn't hold your breath. I'll be voting Lib Dem (http://www.libdems.org.uk) or Labour (http://www.labour.org.uk), depending on their respective manifestos, if you're interested.

Re: Why I don't think you'll hear much about our politics until the election next year.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I think that the extent that Americans vote on moral issues gets exaggerated--and I can say, definitely gets exaggerated at the very least by BBC Radio. I would listen to their reports on the election every morning and think, where are you finding these people? Clinton won because people voted about economic issues; Kerry just didn't make the case strong enough this time.

I think that the thing is, in Britain, anyway, there's nothing like the hype about American politics. Our politics, even the backbiting stuff, is all rather tame, comparatively.

The thing is, though, that does this mean you should care more about American politics, about which you can do nothing, just because British politics aren't that interesting? I mean, they affect your daily life, so wouldn't that make them interesting in and of themselves?

I'm wondering, frankly, if this isn't a media thing. American politics are, admittedly, a bit easier to hype up, and there is a sense I think in the journalistic community (rightly or wrongly) that Washington is Where Its At.

I don't happen to agree. Maybe it's the American in me, but all politics is local. That's how the right often gains power, and you have to watch for that stuff, so I'm always vaguely surprised that we get so much coverage in foreign media. When I listen to the BBC, I want to hear about what Blair did, not another person yammering about the stupid McGreevy speech.

Re: Why I don't think you'll hear much about our politics until the election next year.

[wednesdayschild.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think I accidentally mislead you about the hype thing - I didn't mean that in Britain there's more hype about American politics than there is about British politics (because that's not true), but that there's more hype in America about American politics than there is in Britain about British politics.

On the other hand, this election was of huge importance to us in Britain, because of our 'special relationship' and because the outcome would directly affect us regarding the war in Iraq. Because our soldiers are out there too, dying, and because our government supported your government, and that sort of thing. We all knew that unless there was a change of President in your country, our policies in Iraq would not change. So I think that we can be forgiven for getting so very involved and het up about your election.

Also, the US economy affects the rest of the world to a very great extent, too - a recession in the US can spark a global recession, whereas a recession in the UK is unlikely to. If the roles were reversed, I'd hope to see as many Americans talking about British politics as there are Brits talking about yours. While politics is local, and I agree with this, in the recent circumstances you can't expect the citizens of countries directly affected by American politics and policies to sit back and pay it little heed.

How do you listen to BBC news, incidentally? If you're listening to world coverage, then you will hear a lot about news in the US. If you check out the http://news.bbc.co.uk you can, I think, change your local area, and check out UK news. You'll start off on the global map, but you can select different areas.

Oh, you might be interested to hear that the Conservative Party has just announced plans for tax cuts - this was the big news this evening (I managed to catch it because one of David's housemates has a TV; I don't watch any when I'm at uni otherwise).

Re: Why I don't think you'll hear much about our politics until the election next year.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I fully hate all the hype in America about American politics. I think folks got a bit hysterical, and it gets in the way of an actual conversation about actual issues, which is a drag.

I wouldn't begrudge folks getting involved in our election--it was more, I was wondering why there was so often conversation about us and not about things closer to home. Then again, you are the one who started this thread (http://www.livejournal.com/users/jlh/153634.html?thread=798498#t798498) on one of my entries that was all about your domestic politics, so I would say you are far from guilty of that, anyway.

The funny thing is that what affects us most immediately much of the time is what happens in this hemisphere, so there is a great deal of coverage of Latin America in our press. When the Mexican peso went through its crisis some years back it threatened to really crash our market.

The National Public Radio station here in NYC plays the BBC World Service Newshour from 9-10am our time, which is how I hear it. That's most of the way that I find out about the things I do know; though the foreign coverage on NPR is excellent, it's mostly Latin America and then some Europe, whereas the BBC has more Africa and obviously internal European stuff.

Tax cuts are the panacea for everything, aren't they?

[sheryll.livejournal.com]

I tend to refrain from moaning about politics of any sort on LJ. That said, our election this past June was very much a matter of finding the lesser of evils for most people.

I did follow our political debates and watching them with friends turned into an evening of talking to the TV and deciding the varying degrees of stupidity displayed. It's a sad day in Canadian politics when the Bloc Quebecois comes out better than the rest in the debates.

Despite the Liberal government having finished a term fraught with scandal and mismanagement they were elected again. This time with a minority government, which should keep them in check for this term.

Biggest issues around here have been government spending - not just bad spending (can we say 'Gun Registry' program?) but wanting them to spend in the right places, education, health care, military funding (or rather, lack of), social programs. And for me, the whole bilingualism issue. My pet peeve is a country that insists all provinces and territories be bilingual - except Quebec. When I can go anywhere in Quebec and be served in English, only then will I agree that places like the Northwest Territories should make people speak French. Pet peeve of mine. And it makes for interesting conversation when watching political debates with francophone friends. :)

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on that bilingual thing, dude. I mean, I'm from Maine, aka the French Canadian Riviera, and they hate it when we can't speak French. (Full disclosure: My mother is from a long line of French Canadian Catholics who moved to Maine about 150 years ago.) If you want everyone else to learn French, learn English. Tit for tat.

Does the Bloc Quebecois have much support outside of Quebec? How much of a national force are they? I know that Quebec is populous enough that they can make a big stink whenever they want to anyway, but is it like they have secret sympathizers in Saskatchewan?

You know, I grew up watching the CBC on my cable. Looking forward to watching The National every night when I'm home for Christmas, you bet.

[sheryll.livejournal.com]

I moved to Chicoutimi after spending 5 years in Europe. I'm not sure which was more offensive to Quebecers, that I was English or that I spoke Parisian French. Wasn't a hope in hell that anyone would speak English to me up there, the Saguenay region being the part of Quebec that most wants to separate from the rest of Canada. I even had rocks thrown at me when I rode my bike around the neighbourhood.

The Bloc doesn't really have much support outside Quebec, thank goodness. At least none that I've heard of.

It was quite an interesting experience to watch the US debates and make the comparisons between those and ours. Where was the free-for-all that the Canadian debates descend into? :)

CBC just isn't the same without Hockey Night in Canada. Even though I totally detest Don Cherry and flip channels between periods when he's onscreen! We tend to watch more local news on an independent station rather than watching The National, though when hubby isn't home I'll flip between the two.

I had no idea you had ancestors in Quebec. Whereabouts were they from? Am massive genealogy buff. :)

[jlh.livejournal.com]

My roommate from college married a Canadian, and he is very sentimental about Hockey Night. The NFL cable package that lets you watch every game carries Hockey Night and it makes him all happy. Though, I think Don Cherry got hired by NBC, didn't he? I think he was announcing random summer Olympics events here in the States.

You know, the Quebec side of the family hasn't been explored too well. My grandmother's maiden name was Martin and she and my mother grew up in those Western Maine towns where half the people speak French at home anyway, especially back in the early 1900s. I do know, however, that one of my grandmother's other grandmothers was kicked out of Denmark for being a prostitute. Which, if you knew my grandmother, is not really a surprise.

[sheryll.livejournal.com]

If you want to some checking into the Quebec side of the family, I'd be happy to help out. I live about a 15 minute bus ride from the National Archives. I had a research pass that I let expire, but I can get another just by presenting ID and signing away my first born. (Well, she's my only one, but if they want to pay her college bills, they're welcome to her. :-D)

No idea what Don Cherry's doing. Someone had the bright idea to nominate him for CBC's Greatest Canadian contest. I'll shoot myself on the spot if he wins.

[miafitz.livejournal.com]

We had an election last May. I'm pretty sure current president, GMA, the one I voted for cheated on the election, with the help of several military men and such type. Somehow I am relieved. Because her biggest contender was an action star, high school drop out whose vocabulary consists mostly of threat words (as in his former movies), is best friends with an illegal gambling lord (who happens to be the former president we managed to kick out with a soft coup) and never had any political experience before this. He will probably only serve as a puppet for another military man with Marcos type dictator tendencies. Why the biggest contender? Because our educational system is fucked up and the masses will vote for anyone popular. He would've won, I'm sure, if not for the "add and subtract" scheme. Thankfully, he didn't, GMA is still the lesser evil, not to mention the fact that the woman had actual economic policies.

Our politics is exciting because it is shite and the senate is filled with moron/actors. There is no chance in hell gay marriages/divorce/abortion will ever be passed here because we are all under the impression that we are conservative. Although to be frank, I am not for abortion, so that's fine with me. We are currently the poorest country in Asia, next to India, maybe, but I'm not even sure. Kids graduate from public grade schools illiterate. What will happen when another dumb asshole runs next elections.

I never really complained about the American voting system or your election results, because duh, I still think y'all are luckier than we are.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's really really interesting. What things do you not like so much about GMA? And are you really poorer than Bangladesh? Because those guys, they are hurting, and they're always getting flooded.

Kids here graduate from public schools illiterate, too. It's like, such a waste, such a total waste.

[miafitz.livejournal.com]

Personally, I like her, but sometimes I think her decisions are too affected by public opinion (and seriously, the public/activist groups can be morons, honestly, they oppose all forms of foreign relations and foreign investment, wtf?!). I realise it's a tactic to gain public trust, but she already won, she should just do her job. Okay, maybe we're not poorer than Bangladesh. But countries like Malaysia and Indonesia have surpassed us in terms of economic growth in the last ten years. And we get floods a lot! It's the sucky drainage system, a problem stemming from a hundred years back when city was still being constructed. It will be difficult to repair now without expending hundreds of millions of pesos we don't have. And the city would have to cease to function, so we live with it. Plus the garbage problem, I won't even start.

There are some schools here that have about a hundred kids or more a classroom. And there aren't enough text books for everyone. And the teachers, I know it's not their fault, are not very good. (Here's a vivid example, when I was twelve, my mom, who is an Educ. supervisor would ask *me* to check the essays of incoming teachers. There were red marks all over). The really good teachers opt to teach in private schools or go abroad, because the compensation in public schools just isn't enough. How do you expect kids to learn in that environment? I think GMA should pay more attention to education, because the children are our future thing is not just lyrics in a song :) That and wipe out graft and corruption in the government. It's unbelievably rampant, and it really is crippling the country. I could honestly say that of the yearly national budget, about half goes into the "buwayas" (alligators) pockets.

...sorry if this is very lengthy :)

[frozen-jelly.livejournal.com]

I think its awful that Ariel Sharon said that if Yasser Arafat dies that he will not be allowed to be buried in Palestine/Israel. Its horrible, that a man who is the elected leader of a people can't even be laid to rest in what he holds to be his home country. Although, hopefully he won't die, because I really think that would destabilise the middle east even more.

I like the Irish system of having first second third choice votes for candidates, not least because it both recognises candidates who are not neccesarily major players and also provides a lot of excitement while watching election coverage (you think your man is doing not so well, but when the one behind him gets knocked out you get a whole lot more votes!) Also there's more chance of you getting someone elected that you had a part in choosing (even if it was 4th out of six or whatever)

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I totally agree, I think it would be a bad political move on Sharon's part not to allow Arafat to be buried in Palestine. Makes him into even more of a martyr, really.

You know, Lani Guinier, a law scholar who was Clinton's first choice for Attorney General (but she couldn't be confirmed becasue she was quite liberal and then Clinton didn't stand behind her) is a big proponent of moving away from one man, one vote. She says it leads to all this crazy redistricting where you try to draw the precincts to connect voters of a certain persuasion. She suggests that everyone run at large, and then everyone get, say, five votes if there are five seats to be filled. You could put all five votes behind one candidate, or spread them around as you chose.

I really think one man, one vote is what is supressing third parties. That, and that we are a really really enormous country and it's hard to get any kind of scale anymore. By the time you become a force, you're really just seen as a spoiler, and most 3rd parties are formed around personalities anyway. It's frustrating.

But the Irish system does sound like an improvement!

[frozen-jelly.livejournal.com]

Thing is i don't think anywhere has real authentic democracy, since Athens fifth century BC, and even then thats not real democracy because of so many exclusions and restrictions due to class and status. Its like havin this great idea but lacking any practical working model to put it into practice in a society.

The electoral system also confuses me, because although almost half of a state can vote one way because 3% more voted the other all the former votes are seemingly disregarded. It seems unfair.

But that proposed system sounds great, although I wonder if a government that was elected via an electoral college system would ever be willing to change the status quo.

But thats the thing - what a lot of people don't realise about Athenian Democracy was that it took a good few tyrants(Peisistratus and Cleisthenes to name the two most important IMO) to introduce and implement all the changes that gradually led to what we know as democracy.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

At the beginning of the Republic, the people didn't even vote for their Senators--the state legislatures did. Founding Fathers, not so much with the trusting of the unwashed masses, even if they did talk a lot of jazz about yeomen farmers and small landholders.

I hate the Electoral College. It used to be that no one bothered with it because it didn't really matter that much, but now it's clearly broken. I hope there's real change soon.

I agree about democracy. I think the US is actually far too large to really put it into motion. All politics is local after all.

[misscora.livejournal.com]

See, I'd tell you about politics here, but I don't really know that much except that Koizumi is a Bush-fan and the Ministry of Education keeps claiming that English education in this country is about communication but that will never be true unless they do away with or at least substantially revamp the Entrance Exams.

Well, that an apparently there's a scandal at the top levels every three months or so and it's rife with corruption and sexism. But the sexism thing was obvious.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

And isn't Koizumi a good bit less corrupt than what came before him? Ah, the Japanese government, so clubby.

[misscora.livejournal.com]

From what I know, he is, yeah. Old Boys Club totally describes JP in some ways.

[august-showers.livejournal.com]

So came across your post while jornal-hopping and read this - "I'd love to see a lot more of you all yammering away about your own fucking politics and what you like and don't like about them, and a little bit less about how you think our voting system is stupid, because, not so much with the helping"

And since I have been going on a bit about American politics lately and if you want to know, I guess it's fair to talk about how much more a lot of things are in India.

So the elections were held earlier this year and all the exit polls were strongly in favour of the ruling party (the BJP) coming back into power. Mainly coz they had done a lot on the IT front and promoted liberalization and boosted the economy and free trade and other middle and upper-class money making ventures which will be great for the country in the long run.

What they failed to do, on the other hand, was pay just as much attention to the overwhelming number of people who rely on agriculture for their daily livelihoods. So, on election day, all these people came out and voted against the BJP and led to what was generally regarded to be a major upset. But it went to prove the "power of the people" thing and the next government will know better than to ignore any of the sections of society so it all worked out. Plus, we rather like our new Prime Minister (though we adored the old one too).

Oh, and the reason I talk so much about American politics is because not only am I studying here at the moment but because everything that happens in the US affects everyone else in the world in one way or another. So we all wait and watch.

Now I shall wander off after leaving an insanely long comment on a stranger's journal :D

[august-showers.livejournal.com]

How much more screwed up a lot of things are... *facepalms*

By which I meant the rampant corruption in the country which is something that we acknowledge and try to fight every day.