Six weeks.

[jlh]

About the political stuff. If someone said in 1964 that they felt that beating back Khrushchev was more important than the civil rights situation in the south and therefore they were voting for Goldwater, they would have been within their rights to do so. However, they shouldn't have been surprised that any Black friends they might have had would take it personally, wondering that a friend of theirs would actually put something ahead of their right to vote/go to school/even exist.

Change 1964 to 2004, Khrushchev to whatever large issue someone might agree with Bush on (terrorism, Iraq, etc.), civil rights for gay rights, and Blacks for gays, and hopefully you'll begin to understand what's been going on. It makes me very sad to see that it really is mostly those who have a personal understanding of predjudice and identity politics that are on the front lines of this. I know, because I have seen, that you don't have to be a person of color, or Jewish, or gay or lesbian yourself to have this visceral understanding of these issues, but it really seems to help, and that's too bad.

So be honest! Come right out and say, "I'm voting for Bush because I honestly feel that his stance on [insert your issue here] is more important to me and to the future of this country than his stance against gay rights."

And if you feel that way, less power to you.

Comments

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Not really. My experience is that people of color, Jews, gays and lesbians regularly dismiss any discrimination that happens outside their circles.

Actually, that was precisely what I meant! Sorry that was unclear. I meant that most of the people I see out there swinging are black like Dionne (and me) or Jewish like Cassie and Heidi, and it seems to me looking around that while the non-whites and the Jews understand the issue immediately and feel it like a sucker punch, that our non-minority friends need to think a moment, have more explained to them, and frequently can't understand what the hell we're getting so excited about.

I fully realize there are people making other choices; I just want them to both be honest about it, and to understand if other people are offended.

[malachan.livejournal.com]

it seems to me looking around that while the non-whites and the Jews understand the issue immediately and feel it like a sucker punch, that our non-minority friends need to think a moment, have more explained to them, and frequently can't understand what the hell we're getting so excited about.

Much truth in this. I have never honestly felt any kind of visceral political reaction, at least to the extent that you and others seem to be talking about, for any political issue ever. Even those issues that horrify me the most - war, terrorism, poverty, the death penalty, nationalism - I'm always a step removed emotionally, stoking up my emotion as a rhetorical tool when needed, actively trying to approach the issue coldly otherwise.

But I am a member of almost every priveleged/majority/non-discriminated group imaginable. White, male, middle class, English-speaking, heterosexual. A southerner within England, an Englishman within the UK, a first-worlder, not a member of any religious minority, son of a civil servant, public-school-educated, Oxbridge-educated. The only conceivable way that I belong to any discriminated group is my atheism, and really, there is almost zero discrimiantion against atheists here beyond occasional minor annoyances; and atheists outnumber churchgoers here anyway.

Should I be this un-visceral in politics? I think I approach political issues in as apersonal a way as I can. I like to think that this is the best way forward - which is not to deny anyone who really does connect personally to issues their emotional outrage - but more of a belief that I will probably never be that way and that a society where no-one (at least, no rational, unprejudiced, sane person) has cause for visceral grievances is the society we should aim for.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I would love to have a world where no one has a cause for visceral grievances, absolutely. But I don't think I want a world where people don't make decisions based at least partially on emotions. I'm not a great believer in the rational being the highest level of thought. I think rational thought can lead you into really weird places that makes sense on a rational level and not on a human level. (Communism comes immediately to mind, in certain forms.) There is good that comes from passion, and there is a need for passionate to balance the rational; yin and yang, etc, etc.

Certainly there is a lot of crazy free-floating hysteria, and one always should take a moment and think before plunging forward, but I do feel that emotion, passion, it is a powerful engine to keep you going on that long progressive path that Josh spoke of in his post.

[garyamort.livejournal.com]

Sorry for not being clear, I was stating that minorities as a group often are just as blind to civil liberties infringements, if not more so.

For example, over the past few decades, the black community in the United States has been very vocally against racial profiling. In fact, when I first moved to Maryland there was ongoing action in pursuing a settlement with the Maryland State Police on this very issue.

Yet after 9/11, in poll after poll, african americans overwhelmingly saw no problem with using racial profiling in airport security. So as long as the group being 'victimized' was not them, they had few problems.

So my experience/view is no group is more likely to stand up for civil liberties of others. I see instances where all groups choose to keep their mouths shut.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I dunno, there were a ton of Jewish people working in the Civil Rights movement. Anyway, I was speaking more of what I see in this particular fandom when some gay right dustup occurs--the people who speak up first and loudest tend to be, well, the gay folks like John, the black folks like Dionne and me, and the Jewish folks like Heidi and Cassie and Josh, and I think it's an interesting trend. Unfortunate, but interesting.