On giving head.

[jlh]

I know, the spam, it just doesn't stop.

So I've been reading all this CSI slash and one thing I've been noticing in some of the smut that I never saw in HP is one guy laying down and the other guy kneeling over him, and the one on the bottom sucking him off.

Now, being in this prone position and having to lift up with your neck/shoulder muscles sounds significantly less than comfortable. But beyond that, let's face it: it's tough enough to breathe when you're giving head in the first place. I can't imagine deep throating someone if your neck is bent. It doesn't make sense to me. Hell, I can't even sing sitting like that, much less shove 5 or 6" of penis down my throat and then swallow a teaspoon or so of ejaculate.

[Of course, being in that position as a girl (though a bit farther forward such that you are actually sitting on your partner's face) makes tons of sense, but the angles are so much different and there isn't anything penetrating your partner's throat in that instance.]

So am I just picturing this wrong? Is the giver sitting up from his abdomen rather than his neck, the givee up on his knees rather than down on his haunches? And even if that is so, who wants to give head while doing what amounts to a permanent crunch?

ETA: A friend said that while she can see giving head (though perhaps not deep throating) in this position she can't see being able to be very active about it, and that it sounds more like mouth-fucking to her. I agree. The problem is that these stories are very specifically not talking about mouth-fucking, as the top isn't doing any thrusting and is frequently fairly passive. Neither of us can picture giving head from that position and not being essentially passive.

Thoughts?

Comments

[locumtenens.livejournal.com]

I kind of love that this was the first entry I read upon waking today (I work at night, didja know?).

So, yeah, none of that seems comfortable. And, what keeps springing to my mind, at least, is the angle of the penis. Unless the giver was up on his elbows, the penis would have to be bent downwards, and - ouch - that doesn't seem enjoyable at all.

Although, maybe the suckee is on all fours, and kind of screwing the other guy's mouth. That makes a bit more sense. Kind of.

Oh, damn. Julie has a great jpeg of this, if you can get her to show you. No, really.

[locumtenens.livejournal.com]

Aha! I found it, but completely NOT worksafe AT ALL. Nor is it for kiddies.

But it doesn't look like *she's* having much fun! (http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TzZzMDZBwkgJ:http://www.popularpages.net/pics/cock-gagging_4_1816.jpg)

[jlh.livejournal.com]

No, that woman's mouth is getting fucked, which is a completely different thing. That said, that guy is facing in the other direction to the one I'm talking about, so it actually works better—she can actually take him into her throat because in order to lift up to him she would be stretching her neck rather than bending it. Make sense?

[locumtenens.livejournal.com]

Yep. I understood the description you gave, but I wasn't sure if that was *exactly* how the fic depicted it, or how you interpreted it to be. I now realize from this & your above comment that the fic writers are just on crack.

Sounds to me like a bizarre fandom trend to continue writing the characters in that position.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

slytherincess or some other Julie?

On all fours makes so much more sense, only within these stories that clearly isn't what is going on. (I personally think on all fours is awesome especially for slash as it makes it easier for the givee to do random fingers in arseholes and that sort of thing.) See, if you're lying on a bed on your back, and someone is on their knees on top of you, sort of sitting in your lap, and they walk up the bed on their knees until they are kneeling near your shoulders, you can't flip up to be on all fours because the headboard or at least the wall is in the way.

[longtimegone]

Julie was looking for a icon of gagging for something like "I threw up a bit in my mouth" or something, and ran into that. :)) I died alughing for hours and Allyson so lovingly set the pciture as the wallpaper on my laptop for me to find later that night.

Good thing I don't use my laptop for work. o_O

[chinawolf.livejournal.com]

I'm with you here. I can't imagine it being comfortable enough to actually last long enough to bring the other guy to orgasm, unless they're going for a time record. Maybe that's where the strong neck muscles come from? :)

[jlh.livejournal.com]

What I'm thinking of very specifically is one sex scene in "Canada" where Nick is sitting on Gil's legs and they're sort of talking—Nick makes that Waxahachie joke—and then Nick slides down Gil's body to give him head and says, "Go ahead baby, fuck my mouth" and so Gil does. Then Nick crawls back up Gil's body and Gil takes him into his mouth and also does some significant assplay, after which Nick says, "So, that was my ass" and decides that he's up for fucking at some future date. And I was wondering, how does one give head and do all that assplay from that position? It seems overly strenuous.

And I've also seen it in some other Gil/Nick fics, while I don't recall ever seeing it in HP slash.

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

Wow. Interesting discussion :D And um, yeah. What you said :D

[ali-wildgoose.livejournal.com]

This is likely TMI, but dude...you asked ;}

I've never had trouble giving head in this position -- but deep-throating would be out of the question. I see it as more of a "on the way to other things" kind of maneuver, rather than a good position for actually getting someone off.

So: Yes, I'll buy that position, but only if it doesn't get ridiculous.

[titanic-days.livejournal.com]

Exactly. If you want to come in that position you'd better already be damn close. Gay sex is a lot more about running through loads of different positions and doing different things on the way to somewhere nice, though - and I think a lot of slashers don't see this as being the case.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

In my experience straight people do a bunch of things on the way, as well. So I think it's less about not realizing that people change positions and more of a fictional construct so you don't have to write all that action. As when people read smut they're often like, okay, come already, jeez.

But could you do like, a ton ton of assplay on someone from that position? Like, the guy is getting seriously fingered and stuff in this story, so that bit doesn't scan for me, either.

[ceilidh]

I see it as more of a "on the way to other things" kind of maneuver, rather than a good position for actually getting someone off.

Yep, exactly.

[jlh.livejournal.com]

The language of some of the stories imply deep throating, and there is definitely orgasm. That's what I find confusing. And while it isn't from a cold start, it is the only actual manipulation of the guy's cock within the story. So yeah, I'm also with you on that, which says again that it makes no sense in the way it's used in this story.

[ali-wildgoose.livejournal.com]

I think that's a major flaw in MANY stories with pornish leanings -- taking a basically ok idea and pushing them so far that they no longer make logistical sense ;}